Sebastian (00:02):

You are listening to the Insightful Connections podcast. Our guest today is Michaela Gascon. Michaela is the CEO and President at KJT Group. Founded in 2007, KJT provides strategic market research and medical communication services to healthcare organizations. They specialize in the pharma biotech space and have partnered with many of the top 25 pharma companies. Unlike others in healthcare insights, KJ T'S proprietary approach, Insight by Design, is based on service design thinking principles and ensures bold insights create business impact and activation. They're a diverse supplier boasting a WBENC certification, and are recognized as a thought leader in generative AI and human co-creation for healthcare market research. Prior to joining KJT at the company's inception, Michaela was a researcher at Harris Interactive. Michaela, it's a tremendous honor to have you on the podcast today.

Michaela (00:53):

It's great to see you Seb

Sebastian (00:56):

So I always start with this contextual question and I'm wondering if you can tell me a little bit about how you got into market research originally and how that helps account for where you are now.

Michaela (01:28):

Yeah, absolutely. I can consider myself one of the lucky few <laugh> as I've shared my story over time. It seems like not many people found the world of market research in undergraduate, and that's where I did. So when studying I was a business major, one of the courses that you could take was in market research, happened to be this serendipitous semester where my market research class and my psychology class around consumer psychology and why people are motivated and why they make certain decisions all coalesced for me. And I saw the intersection of the business world and the psychology world and I was completely smitten from the get go. Back then it was very rare to have a market research class within a business school. They're certainly more common nowadays, and there weren't the number of MMR programs or anything like that when I was going through studies. So I consider myself really fortunate. I was sold on the industry, graduated, got my first job at Harris Interactive, as you mentioned, and have never looked back from research and insights.

Sebastian (02:33):

Amazing. I'm curious, what was it about that class that kind of looked a spark for you?

Michaela (02:38):

So I think I always liked the world of marketing, but I am not that creative type. So seeing how the research itself could inform marketing strategy, being based, you know, in evidence, in numbers, quantifying things through surveys and just seeing the interplay of those data with the marketing and the creative side of the, the house, if you will, that I thought was so appealing, but I knew it wasn't gonna be the right fit for me. That's what really sold me.

Sebastian (03:09):

Super interesting. I think that one of the things that I increasingly find is, is just sort of structuring my reality is like behind every door it's market research, right? Like <laugh>, we are a market research company, but if we wanna do marketing, it's like, okay, well you need to do some market research <laugh>. And it's like, okay, get market research, right? And we're, we're part of a, a startup accelerator and all the companies here, the thing that they hammer into their heads is like, you are going to build a product that nobody's going to use because you haven't actually figured out that there's a problem to solve here. And the only way you're gonna find problems that are worth solving is through market research. <laugh> market research again, you know, <laugh>.

Michaela (03:47):

Yeah, yeah. It is amazing and it really is <laugh>.

Sebastian (03:51):

Yeah, so cool that you got drawn to that and you know, on my unbiased perspective, it's the right, the right call all those years ago. So I was doing a bit of research ahead of this episode and one of the things that you mentioned is that prior to becoming CEO at KJT, you actually occupied a very wide range of roles within KJT, touching on a lot of the organizations', different functions. I'm wondering if you can tell me a little bit about the story of that sort of journey for you and how that informs your ability to sort of take a holistic perspective as CEO.

Michaela (04:23):

I think it's, you know, mostly a reflection of two different things. One was joining the startup at the inception and saying, I'm on deck for whatever needs to happen here. And just kind of knowing that I was gonna have to potentially flex a lot of different skills and that journey of starting with the company on day one. And the other part is really my business background. So in market research it's multifaceted as far as the skillsets that people bring to the table. Lots of different social sciences, right? Maybe even writers, certainly psychologists, economists, maybe math. I was actually a standout in that my educational background and training was in business. So I think it was partially the business reading I had that really gave me a well-rounded understanding of different aspects of operations, but then activation and learning a lot of research design components as well.

Michaela (05:15):

And then being in the time and place with those skill sets as the company was going through different stages of growth. I was, you know, running our, our tabs and, and our DP at one point and had no training in that. But you figure it out and then once you get, you know, to a a period where you're busy enough, you hire that operations manager. I felt like for several of our business cycles, I was constantly trying to put myself out of a job, get the team or grow something to a point where I could then, well not just I, but you know, we as a company could hire someone to do that job full time and then I would go back to research. It was like in every instance I would take on this side project or this side department work through that. But then I was always eventually getting back to the passion point of doing the research studies, working on client engagement, all those kinds of things.

Sebastian (06:03):

Yeah, that's so interesting. You know, the metaphor of putting yourself out of a job really resonates for me, right? Because we're still at the stage where, you know, really every function of our company flows through Dan and I directly and you know, we're sort of inch by inch building processes that allow us to not just delegate because delegating is easy, but delegate with confidence that it's gonna be performed to your standards, right? And I think that's so interesting. That's sort of a shared, uh, experience that you've been through. Yeah,

Michaela (06:31):

Absolutely. And honestly, I, I can't imagine being in the role of CEO without having all of those experiences. So you're asking about the holistic view. I really do have a comprehensive and holistic view of the operations because I've done it all, whether it was on the DP side or managing our external programmers or internal programming team, whether it's the qualitative team and what their needs are, or even on the recording end of things, what about our client strategy team? What are their needs? What is it really like to be in their shoes? I really have done all the jobs, so I really do bring all of that to the table and a lot of empathy for what everybody is going through and what their challenges are. Chief

Sebastian (07:08):

Everything Officer <laugh>.

Michaela (07:10):

Yeah.

Sebastian (07:11):

So you mentioned empathy and I think that kind of touches a little bit on one of KJ T's values that I've been doing some background on. And I'm really interested in hearing more about the values that you guys live by as an organization and you know, what those sort of boil down to for you as a leader and for KJT as a company.

Michaela (07:31):

Yeah, you're right. Empathy is one of our seven core values and it's super important. Our realization of empathy is maybe a little bit different of a lens than how you might interpret it at at first glance or you know, it's such a ubiquitous term. Empathy and having empathy we really, 'cause we're researchers, right? You know, we broke all of our core values down into a rubric. So we have core valued behaviors. How do you show up every day and demonstrate that you have this core value? And for us, empathy really means that you are seeking to understand something from a different perspective. You're setting aside preconceived notions and really remaining open to new ideas and perhaps even actively seeking collaborative solutions through shared understanding. So if you think about, again, I'll just go back to my personal experience and, and working in say, you know, a quantitative study, just because I've done this study one time doesn't mean that I now have all of the right answers, but I can bring my perspective and my experience, but I've gotta remain open to something else being the best in and right solution for that client in this instance.

Michaela (08:39):

And really again, having that collaboration with our colleagues, everything we do is very team based at KJT. It's not one person doing a study from start to finish by any means.

Sebastian (08:48):

So I'm wondering if you can tell me a little bit about the other six values as well, you guys?

Michaela (08:52):

Absolutely. Yeah, sure. Yeah, so again, I kind of hinted at the seven in total and now we have a wrapper as well. So I'll tell you about that one at the end. Okay. So in addition to empathy, we have integrity, we have mindfulness, we have ever better, we have empowerment, balance, and mutual respect. So those are the core seven. And we now have a wrapper of ownership. So one of the other things that makes KGT really different is other founder, um, Ken Toski, as he was leaving the organization, he opted to sell his ownership to the employees. So we've actually done a hundred percent employee owned since 2019 and ownership really is a key tenant of our culture as well. And we really feel like it's, it's almost like the wrapper that holds the rest of those core values together.

Sebastian (09:39):

So interesting. So it's like, you know, you guys all are stakeholders in, in the company and and that's what sort of is the glue that that keeps it all together? Yeah,

Michaela (09:47):

Yeah, it is. And uh, certainly a, a strong passion for research and high quality deliverables and all that kind of stuff. But again, that's where we get into the things like the nuances of what it means to have mutual respect for your coworkers and colleagues while still empowering them and what it means to have integrity in those relationships. Like, you know, one of the things we're always working on is integrity. For us, one of the core value behaviors there is actually around providing timely and honest feedback, whether it's positive or negative to your coworkers to make sure that everyone is super clear around what's working and what's not working. And to us it's not just around data integrity or anything like that, it's about that professional relationship. And again, given that we are so team-based and we're not just working with each other being this esop, we are working for each other. So it just really takes things to the next level with the overall working relationship. And what good looks like

Sebastian (10:45):

On the subject of clarity, I think it was Dan, and I hope I'm not attributing this wrong, but your COO Dan had posted something on LinkedIn about, uh, clear is kind, you know, that really resonates with me and I think it can be a challenge sometimes to bring clarity, especially when it's bad news, right? But it's the kind thing to do.

Michaela (11:01):

Yeah, it's a mantra. We started just about, hmm, maybe about a year ago now, but again, there's this pressure, sometimes social expectation that, hey, if I'm gonna share something that's maybe not so favorable that someone might get upset or I don't have the professional courage to share that news with them, whatever it is. But we really are kind of the mantra for us as, as kind, not just to you at, in some equations, you're either taking that hit personally if you're not kind of putting everything on the table or perhaps your colleague is repeating this behavior that's really detrimental either to them or to the work product. And by you not sharing that feedback with them, you're ultimately hurting them, maybe even a client relationship. So clear really is kind if you have the right mindset about it.

Sebastian (11:46):

So I wanted to dive into one of the values that you've previously mentioned. When you talk about mindfulness, I think a phrase that you used that really resonated with me to describe mindfulness is quieting the monkey mind. Right. I definitely struggle with that. I think a lot of people probably struggle with that. I think we're in a time where, you know, I wish I had some data to point to, but I just have a vibe, right? That like <laugh>, you know, if you count the number of notifications that you know, an average professional worker like us is getting in a given day. I think it's going up all the time, right? I certainly feel like it's right. Again, it's a vibe. It's not data, but I think we live in a time where there's a lot of interruption and I think we're in an industry in particular that responsiveness is especially prized as a value. And I guess I'm wondering first of all, if you can just talk generally about that value, but also how you guys make it work when I think there's so much stacked against you.

Michaela (12:45):

Yeah, no. So many answers and so many thoughts for you <laugh>. Sure. Yeah. So, um, quieting the monkey mind is a direct quote actually from a Headspace meditation that we have been listening to. So one of the things that we really encourage all of our employees to do is to learn how they can quiet their minds and not feel so scattered all the time. A really helpful technique that, oh, I mean, I'm not gonna say everybody in company meditates, but several people in the company enjoy the meditative process, whether it's actually following a guided meditation or during quiet time. There's a lot of different tools and techniques that are out there. Everyone has kind of found what works for them. But we do as an employer sponsor a, an app that has thousands and thousands of options for them to participate in. And we'll even do group-based meditation sessions during our weekly wellness breaks as well.

Michaela (13:42):

If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. But we try, that's just one way I would say at KJT that we really are proactively and intentionally working on people's mindfulness. You mentioned the notifications. It's funny you're talking about this, I I'm actually bringing it up at one of our all hands meetings next week. It's just reminders about notifications and what's reasonable. Personally, I have a lot of notifications turned off. I don't want to be interrupted because again, one of the core values that we have is being present in meetings and in conversations. I agree with you, in our industry, it really does seem like not only responsiveness, but multitasking seems to be a grind to attribute. And I just can't disagree with that more. If you're having a side chat or if you're working on a document while you're in a meeting, your brain literally can't process that information simultaneously and you've got seven tabs open in your mind.

Michaela (14:43):

There's no way you can really absorb and have an engaged conversation and provide a thoughtful response that is also fostering that collaborative spirit and harmony through that conversation. It's just impossible. So it's interesting as we have new employees join KEJT and it's one of the things that, again, we're, we're giving each other feedback on this pretty routinely. I don't want to see you, you know, chatting on teams as you're in a meeting with me or if you're in a meeting, I better not post meeting the email notifications that you were sending email content during said meeting. It's just not one of our norms. And I do agree with you, the vibe collectively is that whether it's your watch or your phone or your Slack channel or your teams or your email, we have so many channels of communication at this point. You've got to be so intentional about what you wanna be notified on and whatnot. So turn off those alerts from your Outlook inbox. I don't get that, I haven't gotten them in years. Shut everything down when you're in a meeting and just be there for the meeting and you will end up being more efficient in the long run. And if everyone's doing that, you're creating less rework, you're moving things forward more efficiently. There's just so many benefits, but it really takes intention and practice <laugh> to do that.

Sebastian (15:54):

Yes, definitely, definitely requires discipline. I mean, myself, I took what I thought was a radical step in that I took push notifications off of Outlook on my phone in December. And I think the reason that I got there was you're in situations where really if you wanted to, you couldn't fix a problem. You'll learn about, right now I'm reading my kids a story at seven or 8:00 PM at night and an email comes in from a client that they're not happy with something, right? That's enough information to ruin my mood. It's not enough information for me to actually resolve the issue, right? Or it's, I'm not in a position to resolve the issue. So, so there's really no benefit professionally to getting this information at this time. Uh, there's no benefit to the client, you know, for me, learning about it at this point in time, and, you know, in the meantime it's completely ruined my ability to enjoy reading about dinosaurs or <laugh>, you know, whatever, whatever it is that I'm engaged with at the time. And, and now I've actually taken it a step further because, you know, one of the things I've noticed is that I'm checking the app too often, so I've just completely removed the app and now if it's an emergency, I'll use the web mail, right? But yeah, yeah. It's not on my phone.

Michaela (17:03):

Yeah, we, again, that gets back to one of our other norms. We really don't send evening emails, like our expectation and the behavior I try and model is, if by chance I am working at night, the late delivery, we kind of joke internally, it does seem like there's a lot of crises and urgent issues to work on when you work in our lovely industry. But we're no one's dying, right? No one's dying. Market research <laugh>. We have this heightened, uh, role for ourselves that we make it feel like it's so much more high pressure than it actually is in a lot of cases. So if you're working at night, delayed delivery on the email, someone doesn't need to see it until 8:00 AM the next morning. The only thing you're doing is potentially disrupting their evening and their time with their family or friends or whenever you know, their personal time. Just don't do with it. It's super easy once you get in the habit with Outlook, don't let your workflow negatively potentially impact somebody else's personal time.

Sebastian (17:56):

I wanted to talk about one other thing that I've heard you talk about as a leader and something that you strive to create within your culture, which is, correct me if I'm framing it wrong, but sort of matching people or aligning people with their best and highest purpose, right? So sort of not trying to put square pegs and round holes is sort of my way of paraphrasing that idea. How do you identify that with the people that you work with and how do you go about that process of right sizing within your organization, within your teams?

Michaela (18:28):

Yeah, it takes a lot of craftiness, let's say that, and I, I don't think we ever have it like perfectly, right? I'm not gonna say that, but to me it really is the intersection of these three things, which is the corporate or the enterprise need for a certain skillset. And then we have our employees who have both skills and interests. We're always trying to get those three things to pull us and to align. So you're saying like you're fitting exactly that cylinder peg into that circle hole, otherwise it's a little clunky, it just doesn't work. It could work in the short run, but not in the long run. But we went through a realignment earlier this year, frankly, where we were trying to get more people into the right skill-based roles that also aligned with their interests to make sure that, you know, people do their best work when they have a really good understanding of what the job responsibilities are.

Michaela (19:20):

They feel well skilled and experienced to be able to perform them. And there's something else that can really just like spark their curiosity. So again, one of our other core values is ever better and that is constantly pushing the envelope. Just because we did something one way and this past project tent was great, maybe we replicate it, but maybe we remain open to doing something new and different. If you're not in a job that matches your skills and to those requirements, you're not gonna have the confidence in a lot of cases to take that gamble to execute something that might feel a little risky when in reality those micro changes could be really innovative in scale and over time. So it's important to try and get as often as you can, all three of those things to align. And that's what the magic happens

Sebastian (20:09):

Must be so difficult, just finding people's zone of genius and, and making sure to get them there. But it's, you know, hats off to you for taking that on. Yeah,

Michaela (20:17):

Yeah, it's been in the cases when it works out, it's really beautiful. And again, part of it just comes back to the culture of openness and honesty and again, feedback and what, what do you, the employees feeling like they can be empowered around what their career's gonna look like, what their role development's gonna look like, and then having the integrity to provide feedback to me or whoever their manager is around, Hey, this is what I wanna do, or this is working well, this is draining my tank, this is filling my tank. And I'm just engaging in those conversations to make sure we can get as many of those talent as possible.

Sebastian (20:51):

Michaela, what keeps you motivated?

Michaela (20:53):

Great question. I just intrinsically, I, I've had a lot of motivation my whole life, so that's kind of a short answer. Maybe a cop out though, I don't know. Um, and just, uh, in some ways it comes naturally to me to keep pushing the envelope and to keep wanting more. So the motivation for me comes from probably the, the high standards and high expectations that I have. And some of it really comes back to this ever better core value too of, I'm, I'm proud of what we've accomplished and what the business has done, but I know there's more, you know, I just, having that foresight and anticipation is super motivating for me to try and not just get myself excited about that, but to get a whole team of people excited about that, that is more challenging than the self-motivation. I don't think that's a surprise to anybody, but that just the future for what can be and the possibilities there is what's really motivating to me.

Sebastian (21:47):

Awesome. If folks wanna learn more about KJT, where should they go?

Michaela (21:50):

Go to our website, our newly launched and refreshed website. Uh, we have been working through some awesome and refined content that we feel like is much more descriptive about the company, our services, what makes us unique and different. So kjtgroup.com or you can check out our social channel. LinkedIn, uh, is where we post most readily. Um, so check out KJT there.

Sebastian (22:13):

Awesome. Thanks so much for taking the time, Michaela. Awesome.

Michaela (22:16):

It was great talking with you. Thanks for having me.