TRANSCRIPT

Sebastian  (00:02):

You are listening to the Insightful Connections podcast. Our guest today is Sue Collin. Sue Collin is an experienced, rich marketing insights professional who began her career over 30 years ago in the quantitative space and has since added a qualitative emphasis to her repertoire. She heads up RTI Research's Qual practice. RTI Research is a market research and brand consultancy that helps clients in the B2B and B2C spaces move their businesses forward by focusing on transitioning from data to meaning. Sue finds that her deep quantitative experience offers a unique perspective in connecting the dots of non-linear qualitative conversations with both B2B and B2C consumers. While she's busy handling her qualitative project design and moderation duties, she's always thinking ahead to how that information can be used to inform prior or subsequent research efforts and meaningfully answer broader business objectives. Sue, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today.

Sue (00:52):

Hello, Seb. I'm so stoked to be here, especially on a Monday morning. Great way to get the day going with you. Appreciate it.

Sebastian  (01:00):

I think to get us started, I'd love to learn a little bit more about how you got into market research. What's your personal journey in the space, and how does that account for where you are today?

Sue (01:31):

I love that question. It may say a lot or a little, depending on what somebody's journey is. I did not fall into market research. My first job was in market research, and I went to the University of Connecticut, where I earned a degree in Communication Sciences. That department is grounded in all things research. That's what the professors are all about. So I was exposed to a lot of different aspects of research, whether it was stats or running a research project—we did many.

Also, we thought about communication in all ways, big and small, whether it's one-on-one interpersonal communication like we're doing now, or what they call industrial communications, addressing large groups, and so on. I'm really fortunate that I get to use a lot of that today.

Sebastian  (02:21):

When you and I were initially talking about you being on the podcast, you described yourself as a human stories champion. I'm wondering if you can tell me what that means to you.

Sue (02:31):

Well, what it means to me is that in marketing insights or marketing research, we all talk about the importance of storytelling. For that matter, it's important everywhere, no matter what line of business we're in. And I say yes, that's very important—how we craft stories, how we share them, and how we tell them.

If we're fortunate to present to various stakeholders, in order to have a good story and then share it in a meaningful way, you have to elicit the story from consumers or customers in qualitative research. So, of course, I'm a champion of my clients' businesses while I'm working for them, and of their initiatives and what they need to get out of it.

In order to fulfill that for them, Seb, I need to be a champion of the consumer. By definition, in qualitative research, I have to champion their story or stories, whether I'm talking to one person at a time, two people, or, you know, a focus group of people.

Sue (03:31):


And really, it starts with making people feel comfortable. If you want to hear whatever the story or stories are that you're working on, it could be their background. It could be how they came upon a product and some meaningful usage occasion that conjures up special memories for them—or not. Or you're talking to them about something truly serious, like a healthcare issue or some other personal milestone that wasn't so pleasant. They have to feel comfortable with me. So I do that right from the get-go, and in turn, they share their story with me and our clients. I can champion their story and bring that to the forefront for the client in terms of understanding what their consumers or customers are like.

Sebastian  (04:20):


One of the things that I find so interesting is the idea of championing the person's story. What goes into, for you, being a champion, whether it's to your clients or to other stakeholders, for the individual's story?

Sue (04:33):


There's so much that goes into it because qualitative moderators like myself are not just moderators—we're marketing strategists. I am an orchestra leader. I'm a supporting player in a cast of one, the most important actress being the person or people I'm interviewing. So I need to really think about bringing my full self. And I will tell you that 99 percent of the time, the person you're seeing right now is the person that's moderating. In other words, I bring myself to the party—the moderation party. And of course, if I'm having a bad day, I try not to bring that part of it, you know, we're all human.

Also, I reflect back on what that person is like. If I'm talking to a super-duper extrovert, which I can kind of sniff out from the beginning, I think then I raise my game a little bit in my excitement, if you will.

Sue (05:28):


If I'm talking—and I'm going with extremes here—to an introvert or someone who perhaps is neurodivergent in some way different than most of the people I interview, then I'll slow it down a little bit. I give them time to feel more comfortable, to process the question, and to respond thoughtfully.

All of that leads to making sure that they feel comfortable talking with me. It's very rare that I have a respondent, a participant, or a person who doesn't want to share. After all, they signed up for the project; they qualified based on whatever the qualifiers are. And I can pretty much tell from the get-go when they come on screen how it's going to go. Sometimes I'm surprised—usually I'm surprised in a good way.

It starts with me coming on camera and really welcoming the person. When they say my name to start, like just a normal, everyday conversation with them—"Sue, it's great to be here with you"—I know it's going to be a good conversation, or I believe it is. It's a great motivator to go forward.

Sebastian  (06:37):


So interesting. What is it for you that using your name signals?

Sue (06:40):


A little bit of a personal conversation. Of course, it's personal on their end. I'm not talking about me at any great length, other than maybe in the intro. If they say they're into reading books, I might say, "Oh yeah, what have you read recently? I love to read books." But I don't go too much farther than that.

And so, when they say my name, I feel as though it's a conversation that they want to have, as much as I want to have. If it's a B2B person, that's also very meaningful because when I interview B2B people, oftentimes—but not always—they're rushed. They're fitting me in, which is usually how it goes. And when they say my name, I know that they're a little more present. I hope to bring them to be even more present through the interview. That, to me, makes it more human, if you will.

Sebastian  (07:29):


So a while back, you and I were talking about creativity in the research process, and you mentioned that you have a bit of a theory about creativity. You wanted to talk about how you believe researchers can find it, use it, and your belief that everybody has it in the research process. So I wanted to give you some space to talk a little bit about your theory of creativity, where creativity fits in research, and how creativity can enhance the way we do research.

Sue (07:57):


I'm going to say that creativity fits everywhere—in every aspect of our life and business. My recent hashtag on LinkedIn would be, "art is everywhere." If we dial back for a moment, what is creativity?

Creativity, to me, is not necessarily that someone knows how to use a paintbrush, a crayon, a pencil, or a sketchbook, and so on. Creativity is, at its core in business, being resourceful. And that resourcefulness can come from so many different places and people. It can come from collaborating with your colleagues and often collaborating with your competitors. I love that concept because we can learn from each other, and we both win in that way.

Collaboration goes further than just the people we know. It also extends to meeting people we don't know, from other disciplines, and talking to people in HR, software development, or whatever it is, and being able to grasp something from that conversation and use it in our business.

Sue (09:06):


So I often get participants in interviews, particularly for consumer research versus B2B interviews—but sometimes both—where people will say to me on screen, "I'm not creative at all, so I'm not sure if this is a good answer." And I'll say, "Well, just give it to me. Let's not judge anything here. Remember, it's the judgment-free zone."

Probably one of the few places in the world where that exists is during a qualitative interview—at least it should be. So they say that, and then the next thing out of their mouth is a home run. They're telling me the way that they would improve a concept that I'm showing them, and I'm trying not to have my eyeballs pop out of my head because it's the best thing I've heard all day. Not necessarily the worst thing I've heard all day, but the best. People can be really creative, and I think it's a matter of redefining what creativity is.

Sebastian  (09:50):


I'll be in a store, you know, and I'll overhear a conversation where two people are talking. One will say, "Oh, I don't have a creative bone in my body." My answer to that, if someone were to ask me, is, "Of course you do. Do you have relationships? Do you cook or bake? Do you run a household? Have you planned a party? Have you organized a fundraiser?"

I think creativity goes well beyond what we traditionally think of with a sketchbook. And I don't know if it's that people aren't raised to think that way or if it's something about being a kid. I think there's some research on this—that kids are more open to trying other things and being "creative."

When we become adults, maybe we don't think of it that way anymore. But that's not how I am. I think of everything as being a creative endeavor.

Sebastian  (10:40):


How do you think researchers can leverage and apply creativity, maybe in ways that they're not currently thinking of?

Sue (10:47):


I think it's all about going outside of your comfort zone and trying something new. It could be as small as trying a new way to ask a question, whether it's in a quantitative survey or in a qualitative discussion. Collaborating is another key element. We're back to collaboration, Seb—collaborating with your colleagues.

For instance, at RTI, we have what I'll call centers of excellence—different practices. I might be working on a financial services project, and there's something about it that makes me go to Joe, let's say, and say, "Joe, I have this interesting challenge that I'm working on. Have you done anything recently that I could lift or steal?" And would you know that Joe works in a totally different area of business? Let's say he works in CPG, and I'm learning about what he did in his concept test and how I can bring that forward in my business project.

Sue (11:45):


If we spend all day just looking at our screen or looking at our screen without other people being on it, or spend all day looking at the same documents that we've always used, it's very hard to break out of our comfort zone and try something new.

For me, one of the ways I do it is by networking. I love to meet people who are in totally different disciplines—maybe people who have a different point of view from mine on various things. I feed off that to learn new ways to approach challenges and opportunities.

Sebastian  (12:25):


Sounds like cross-pollination of experiences is a big part of what that means for you.

Sue (12:31):


Absolutely. And, as you mentioned in my bio, I was a quantitative researcher for a very, very long time. I had an opportunity to start doing qualitative research. I'd always done just a little bit of it in my quant work—projects like debriefing consumers after an in-person test of some sort.

In quantitative research, there are so many opportunities to be creative. The questions you ask, the storytelling, how you present the findings on a PowerPoint page, how you share it, and how you socialize it with stakeholders—all of those offer chances to be creative.

In quantitative research, I've often thought of it as a linear type of process from start to finish. Of course, there are hiccups along the way in anything we do. I think it's certainly more linear than qualitative research is. But there are still plenty of opportunities in quantitative research to bring that creativity in.

Sue (13:28):


In qualitative research, it's definitely not linear. That wasn't so much a surprise to me based on what I had done in marketing insights and research. Certainly, in having a conversation, my daily conversations might not be linear—whether with colleagues, friends, or others.

Having a conversation with a consumer is a perfect example. That's why they call it a discussion guide, Seb—because it's just a guide. I don't know exactly where the conversation's going to go, even if I'm trying to drive the bus from page one.

Then I have to decide, really in a flash, "Am I going to go where Seb is taking me in the conversation, or am I going to say, 'Please, let's hold that thought for one moment; I want to finish this with you?'" I have to make that decision or come back to it.

And that's what I mean about qualitative research not being linear. At the end, we want to get to the goal of learning the things we need to learn. How I get there may be very different from where we start and from what we think is going to happen.

Sebastian  (14:29):


Sue, one of the things I'm curious about is, outside of research, how you personally keep the creative instinct sharp. How do you strengthen that muscle?

Sue (14:37):


That's key—building the muscle and strengthening the muscle. It's key in whatever we're doing. Lots of conversations with strangers and people help with that. It's amazing when you talk to strangers in the supermarket, at the beach, or wherever you are. You have to read the room and see if there's some receptivity to it before you approach a stranger.

When you talk to strangers, you can learn a lot about things that were never on your radar. One of my favorite conversations, which built both my creativity muscle and my empathy muscle, was with a World War II vet in the supermarket. He had a hat on that said the USS something—it was the ship he served on. I hope it was real. He was the vet.

He had me engaged for about 15 minutes after I said, "Thank you for your service." Somehow, he started telling me about a battle in the Far East that I had never heard about. I don't remember the island, but it wasn't one of the ones we always hear about. It was an amazing story. I'm not sure what I did with that story later on, but it reinforced for me that when you talk to strangers, you can learn a lot.

Sue (15:27):


Another way I keep the creativity muscle strong is by reading—lots of different sources. I was talking to someone the other day, and I said, "I may not always want to read things that I don't agree with, or authors who have a different point of view from mine, or interviewers who have a different perspective." But if you read from various sources, different genres, or long-form Q&A, you can learn a lot and get the creative juices flowing.

You have to be open to it, Seb—be receptive to the question, "What can I learn from this?" It's not about going into it thinking, "I've got to learn something." Just keep your mind open and start thinking, "Ooh, I had never heard of that before. I'm going to either investigate it further or somehow incorporate it into my life and into my work."

Sebastian  (16:33):

Second-to-last question from me, Sue. What keeps you motivated?

Sue (16:37):


I think having fun and learning. I mean, I have fun at work, and part of that is because I work with great people—fun people—and we have similar mindsets. If we can't have fun, what's the point?

Of course, there are other points to working, like thinking about how I'm helping people. People can be my clients, my individual stakeholders, or a larger group of stakeholders. It can also be the company I'm doing work for, helping them move forward.

Like I said at the beginning, it's about making the day a better day. If I can't do that for myself or other people, I'm not really sure what the point is.

Sebastian  (17:15):


If folks want to learn more about you or RTI Research, where can they go, Sue?

Sue (17:18):


They can go to RTIResearch.com. You can find me on LinkedIn under Sue Collin. I'm there almost every day and love to talk to people about any subject.

Sebastian  (17:30):


Thanks so much for your time today, Sue.

Sue (17:32):


Thank you, Seb. It was a pleasure to talk with you. Have a great one

Subscribe to Our Podcast Channel Today!

Dive into a world of insights and inspiration - Stay updated with every episode. Subscribe now and never miss a beat!

* indicates required